Notes:

Anton is the son of Julia Baldwin & Abram Lockwood Willson.

Birth:


Buried:
Detroit, Plot section A3

Anson married Sarah ALICE HILL on 6 Jan 1881 in Howard Twp., Kent Co., Ontario. Sarah was born in Jul 1859 in Howard Twp., Kent Co., Ontario; died on 26 Nov 1932 in Pontiac, Oakland Co., Michgan; was buried in Woodmere Cemetery. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Buried:
Detroit.

Gertrude married Edward Gerrish THURBER on 21 Jun 1904 in Detroit, Wayne Co., Michigan. Edward was born on 3 Jan 1880 in Detroit, Wayne Co., Michigan; died on 20 Mar 1950 in Detroit, Wayne Co., Michigan; was buried in Elmwood Cemetery. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Sherman Anson Willson.Sernior is the son of Anson Abram Willson & Sarah ALICE HILL.

Abstract from Interview with his son Anson Willson Junior:
My father (Sherman Anson Senior) played 36 holes of golf Sunday afternoon, went to bed & woke up & died while shaving Sunday morning.
My father was the healthiest man I ever knew, except that nobody knew how to count calories & nobody knew what the dangers of overweight were, & so my wonderful father thought he could eat all he wanted to, & he did. So did I. But I was young enough so that I didnʼt develop the big belly that he did, & the weight killed him. He played 36 holes of golf on Sunday, got up & shaved Monday, & dropped dead. He was 56 years old. I was very young, in my 20s. He dropped dead & nobody knew why. Everything he did, I had to do with him. We both were golf & tennis champions. He had a huge library in his home. He designed his home just the way he wanted it. The library was filled with books & I had read everyone of them. …
My father was a Mason. I appreciated dad so much so I was enthusiastic when I joined. My mother was a bit against my joining because she had heard all these wild stories about how they beat each other up, & things of that kind, so it all worked & I jumped into Masonry with dad being right there. From then on we went to Lodge together. It wasnʼt too long after that that he died. I donʼt remember the Masonic funeral. I sometimes wonder what happened to me. I was too upset. …

My father & his 3 brothers were Masons. Shermanʼs father & grandfather were Masons.
Ref: Legacy Series: Oral Histories with Past Grand Masters of Michigan. - - -

Sherman married Helen Francés KNIGHT on 22 Jun 1907 in Detroit, Wayne Co., Michigan. Helen was born in Nov 1881 in Michigan. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Died:


Buried:
Detroit, Plot Sec A3.

Family/Spouse: Harry G MUEHLMAN. Harry was born in 1887 in Detroit, Wayne Co., Michigan; died in c 1947. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Birth:
Ref: Detroit Directory: boards with widow Alice Willson of A.

Family/Spouse: Louise Mrs THURBER. Louise was born in 1905 in Nebraska. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Died:
5210 S. Dorchester Ave.

Richard married Theresia TERI CSITKEY on 5 Jul 1952 in Vienna, Austria. Theresia was born on 18 Jul 1923 in Terce, Vas Co., Hungary; died on 14 Jan 2011 in Niles, Cook Co., Illinois. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Sherman Anson Willson of Lexington Michigan, marked his 100th birthday on November 18, 2008 with a fortnight of celebrations with friends, family & church family. Letters, Acknowledgements & accolades in his honor came from all over; the United States President /Dept. Defense, the Governor of Michigan, Rep. John Espinoza, Wayne State University & The Free Masons. Even Birchwood Mall where he walks daily & the Tim Hortons where he frequents held special celebrations.
Sherman was born in Detroit in a house that still serves as offices for Wayne State University. Not only was Sherman born there but he was educated at Wayne State & even became a professor & administrator at Wayne State, a career that lasted 39 years.
As a professor Sherman taught English, Speech, Drama& Photography. His work in photography lead to a commission in the US Navy during WWII where he produced 33 training films. These films reduced training time for recruits from 15 weeks to just 6 days! Sherman’s service merited a certificate honoring him a life long title of Lt. Commander, Retired.
Sherman is an avid lover of art, music, reading, travel & people. The travels themselves total 29 times to Europe incorporating the pursuit of his love of art & music.
Fate played an unusual part recently when Sherman was in the hospital for a short stay. It turned out that his room mate was the grandfather of Caroline Goulding a 16 year old renowned violinist from Marysville, Michigan. Caroline would visit her grandfather to play for him on many occasions which also was enjoyed by Sherman. During his stay Sherman got to know Caroline & her family. As fate would have it Caroline was going to be playing in Lexington during the Bach Festival in the fall & Sherman was able to enjoy her playing there as well.
Sherman is still active in his church as a Scripture Reader & he participates in Bible, Book & other discussion groups. His experience & insights always add to any conversation. Sherman is still physically active & walks daily at the mall. His longevity & good health are an inspiration to all he meets & he enjoys people & often says, “People are more fun than any thing."
Ref: Trinity Episcopal Church, 2005.

. Obituary
2013.2.8 - Lexington, Michigan - Sherman Anson Willson II, age 104, a resident of Lexington passed away on Friday February 8, 2013 at Regency-on-the-Lake.
He was born on November 18, 1908 in Detroit a son of the late Sherman A, Sr. & Helen (Knight) Willson.
Sherman married Bette Whitley on October 3, 1969 in Detroit.
Sherman proudly served his country during WWII & was a Lt. Commander in the U.S. Navy. Mr. Willson retired after 47 years as a professor at Wayne State University. Sherman was a member of Trinity Episcopal Church in Lexington, 2 years champion at the Birmingham Golf Club, Companion with The Worker Brothers of the Holy Spirit Religious Community & a member of the Lexington Masonic Lodge.
He is survived by his wife Bette Willson of Lexington, a son Sherman A. Willson, III, aka Tristram (Cathryn) Jones of Maine, 5 grandchildren, Justine, Samuel, Noah, Ethan & Elijah.
Brother-in-law Rev. Harry B. Whitley of New Jersey, a nephew Jack Hayes of Redford & a cousin Mary Lynne Holder of Lexington. A Memorial Service will be held at 11 A.M. on Thursday February 14, 2013 at the Trinity Episcopal Church in Lexington. Rev. Rick Schark will officiate. Internment will be in the Trinity Episcopal Cinerarium at a later date.
Ref: Port Huron newspaper, Times Herald.

Contd. page 2.

Page 2. Research & transcriptions by PJ Ahlberg. Thank you.

Sherman & Bette Willson Interview.
Interviewer: You graduated from Wayne State University in what year, Sherman? Then you went to University of Michigan?
Sherman: I graduated in 1930. Ya, I got my doctors degree. My life has been busy. I seem to have all I need or want, praise the Lord.

Interviewer: How did you begin your affiliation with motion picture production?
Sherman: This is fun. Have you ever heard of the woman who came to New York & establish a live theater down on the boulevard, in what was an old Jewish place? Jesse Bonselle. When I was about 12 years old, I had the best speech teacher that ever entered the Detroit area, & she appreciated that I had certain talents & so she worked with me. I had another thing that was in my favor; across the street from our school was a normal school where they taught young people how to be teachers. In order to be teachers they had to have subjects so the best teachers in the Detroit area, young people would come over & be subjects & I lived across the street. So even today, I admire those teachers as they were good. Much much later I came into a group & one of them was in the group & I yelled out, my God I haven't seen you in so many years. She said, “Sherman, go away.” She didnʼt want them to know how old she was. But I did have these wonderful teachers. Jesse Bonsall had a part for a young person in a play & I did pretty well in it. I got called in went through rehearsals & all that. I was never prompted on the stage I spent hours & hours at rehearsals. I remember when I was doing were more professional work at the University of Michigan. I couldn't go to my apartment, I was so tired I would curl up on the seat & go sound asleep, then wake up in the morning & go back to work again. As you see, Iʼm enthusiastic. I have been lucky. Every crisis in life, including death, I have been lucky enough to handle it, & say, ʻso be itʼor whatever you have to say.

I finally lost both my mother & father & my sister. My father played 36 holes of golf Sunday afternoon, went to bed & woke up & died while shaving Sunday morning. His theory of raising a boy is like the story of the gun. I have a medal upstairs that says I'm a hotshot with a gun. I had a collection with my father of about 20 guns. I had fired everyone of them. I had my favorite & he had his favorite. I had quite a few marksman medals; if you send in your target with the holes in it & they send you a medal. The event of the bank I told you about briefly; it was a police call said that said the purple gang is headed for your bank & father just went & got his pistol & I got mine & we walked down & when we got there we rechecked & the police said we didn't have to worry, it is too late & they ran, but we each had our gun loaded. I was 13 years old, but father treated me as if I was 20 years old. Later on in Europe, when I was doing the same thing to my son, some Americans came over & said, we donʼt want to be rude, but we were listening in on your conversation. Why do you talk to this beautiful young man as though we were 100 years old? I said, well, heʼs not a 100 years old, but he is probably 60 or 70. They couldnʼt believe it. Another story along that line. There is a statue to the honor of the Swiss Army who paid for someone to come & guard this is a big statue from the crowds that were around, & so forth. I canʼt think what the statue was. Anyway it had lights all over it & one of my jobs was to go down at night & kick out people where picking pockets who wander around. Later I got assignments that were more exciting. I was lucky in the Navy, maybe. I had applied to the Army & I hadnʼt been sworn in I got a call from the Navy who said come on in & weʼll fix you up. So I went into the Navy as a lieutenant commander & boy did I work my tail off.

Interviewer: Well, I hear the food was better in the Navy, too.
Sherman: Well I never had a complaint. It was just working with a lot of fellows who knew what they were doing. I'm sure here were times when it wasn't that way.

Interviewer: Tell us about working for Jam Handy.
Sherman: Well, Jam Handy was a top-level, quality, politically successful producer of training films. When the war came along they wanted him to do that, too, & so he worked right alongside of me part of the time. My job was to pick up the hard jobs. There would be a job that became a better way to transmit secretly & then I was the only one who could understand it, so I taught it for a while & I guess I can say I was grateful to the Navy. I couldn't have asked are treated better & of course I got a paper from the president & one from the governor saying I maintain my rank. So, legally I am still in the Navy &, of course, I would serve if they called on me, are better where we work on it & then a course I was sure of it they needed me. But they didn't need me to point a gun & shoot somebody. They needed me to train. Training of young men is not always easy. I remember I was having trouble with a training film; Iʼd made the training film, &the young recruits, the young men, who were seeing this for the first time, would start dropping down & going to sleep. You wonʼ believe this. I looked around & found a very good looking girl start on virtually it what it is I like to route upon them for every good looking girl that had exceptionally good legs & I said I need to use you as a bait. If I don't let the animals chew you up, will you do it? & she says, sounds good, letʼs do it. So I had her doing
unimportant things on the stage. They didnʼt sleep any more, they stayed awake. The most exciting story I can tell you is how we snuck a girl out who was going to be put in jail in Hitlerʼs place.

Interviewer: Did you work with the French resistance?
Sherman: No. I got word to the Americans that a girl was being held under armed guard from Austrian Nazis, & that made impossible almost a rescuer because they would shoot her first. So they call me in. It turned out she had a man with a loaded gun right at her door. All night long while she was sleeping, that guy was there. But he was human & he occasionally fell asleep. So we waited our chance telling her in the daytime what we were going to do, when we could do it. We waited until one time when he was asleep & she could open the door quietly & sneak out & we left & he was still sleeping. We got her down to some Americans & said to fly this girl out of there before they shoot her, & they did. Years later I remembered the name & I wrote to them & they were starving for food, & so I actually found the family so I sent them a lot of food because they needed it. Then years later, I was married to Betty, we were in their town & I said I wanted to see my old friend. Iʼm not sure Betty was in favor of it. So we went & called on her & she was married to a successful doctor who wasnʼt making much money because doctors donʼt make much money in Europe. We were entertained at dinner. Now the custom at dinner, if you entertain guests at dinner you give them a present to take with them home. It doesnʼt have to be expensive, just some little thing. As we were leaving she came up to me & put something in my hand. That something is a piece of wood about so square, & it says “donʼt forget.” Well that is on my office wall & is a handy thing to remember. It reminds me of that time & of what a delightful person she is. Betty was wonderful about it, she didnʼt make any fuss about it at all. Bettyʼs wonderful all the time. So I have this black & gold plaque & I say goodnight to it once in a while. There have been so many incidents like that, I wonder how I made it sometimes.

Interviewer: Did you get any commendations while you were in the service?
Sherman: No, no. Those things are for officers of high rank & I was only a lieutenant, & they werenʼt passing them out to lieutenants.

Interviewer: How many movies did you make while you were in the service?
Sherman: Probably as many as 15, because they were on small areas that had to be done in a hurry. You had to teach fast. Theyʼs say, hereʼs a group of students & weʼre teaching them RADAR, which was just coming in, & they are taking 3 months to learn it, & we canʼt afford that. Make us a film on RADAR that we can use, so I make one that can do it in 5 days.Theyʼd say, thanks much, & walk away. That was the thing that was exciting then, was how fast couldI turn it out.

Interviewer: What did you do on the film? Did you write it? Did you do all the work? Did you photograph it? Did you have a crew?
Sherman: I had complete command. I didnʼt do any of it. I just said YOU do this & YOU do that. I was going around the country, so I could take a plane or train or whatever. I didnʼt enjoy driving around. But when you get that kind of complete understanding & appreciation, you work your ass off for them. As I said, I still have that ʻdonʼt forgetʼthing hanging in my office. I think Betty will someday try & lose it for me.

Interviewer: You werenʼt the only one in training movies. How many people were simultaneously making movies?
Sherman: Hmmmm. Thatʼs a good one. I would say there as man as 12 to 20 motion pictures that they were waiting for. Theyʼd say, ʻget ʻem out, get ʻem out.ʼOf course, itʼs not easy to produce a film rapidly & make it a good film. You know the 40mm quad, the big gun that won the Pacific battle with the airplanes? It would be on a sandy beach & would be shooting at planes that were over the water. These things would go, boom boom, boom boom. The shell that had been sent out would be like that (indicating size) & if it hit any vital spot at all, it would destroy the plane, not fast, but eventually. Four of these guns were on pedestals with very fine controls. So you could watch the horizon see where you were shooting. I took Betty down on the beach to see this thing & she wandered off by herself. The loudspeaker comes out, ʻThereʼs a woman down on the gunnery range. Somebodyʼs going to catch hell. Get her out of there.ʼ So I had to get my wife out of the range.

Interviewer: Your role was as a produce to do these movies?
Sherman: Ya, I was I was a problem solver too. The Americans donʼt make good guns. Youʼll find that a French or Swiss gun is better. They wanted about 130 machine guns, but they couldnʼt bring them through openly & they were frustrated. It was my job to get those guns through. I found an article in the paper about a lady who was going over to America & I told her I want you to take some new clothes because youʼre going to be working for me. She said, ʻIʼve got plenty.ʼ I said, you go down & buy all the clothes you can carry over to the United States. So I took half of them & put parts of the guns in them & put clothes on top. They shipped them right through & nobody knew what they were until they got to the Airforce, & as that is where the machine guns could be used & we unbuckled them & gave her the clothes.

Interviewer: Whose job was it at Jam Handy to negotiate contract with the Navy for these movies?
Sherman: Probably mine. Jam Handy & I were friends & we could work together. Some people hated his guts; probably some people hated my guts, but anyway, it was easy to work with him. He understood.

Interviewer: So you worked with him for how many years?
Sherman: Well, it was intermittent work, you understand, not reporting for duty every day, so Iʼd say, probably, 3 years we worked. So did his rival, Wilding. They both cooperated with anything I wanted, & I didnʼt put them in a bad position or anything. But, my biggest contribution was teaching the little groups of people who had never heard of a RADAR or a 40 mm, but these kids were supposed to be turned into engineers who could use them. So I would make a quick film & sometimes I would just pull them in & say, Thereʼs the gun, learn how to use it.ʼ It was pretty satisfying, because the kids, & some of them were not kids but were old men, but the people under me appreciated it. I was giving them a chance, something they wouldnʼt have had otherwise.

Interviewer: You were influenced by your dad, & he got you into DeMolay.
Sherman: Let me think now. He didnʼt push me, he went over & checked with the DeMolay people & the Masons, because he was a Mason & he had gotten some money for them for the Lodge. Bankers can do that somehow, without robbing the bank. So I had an entrée, so to speak. WhenI walked in the said, your dad was here. So the DeMolay part was easy & enjoyable & I thought it would stop there, but it didnʼt, & I went on & now Iʼm a loyal member.

Interviewer: You were raised, according to my records, 1959 in Pillar Lodge, #526, in St. Clair Shores.
Sherman: Thatʼs right. Thatʼs when I was living in Grosse Point. Nice place to live.

Interviewer: So you were an eastsider.
Sherman: Not always, but recently. Grand View & the Boulevard were my high school & I lived a block away. There was a high school, grammar school, & a normal school. The normal school would use the others to practice on, to become teachers. So these people who were used as material got twice the training before they could train others, & I walked along & I had the best teachers in the whole system. They had some skills the others didnʼt have. They kept me to work right straight through. I was a busy man. Some wonderful women did some teaching during the wartime. Just great.

Interviewer: After the war, what did you do?
Sherman: I went back to work. I think I hadnʼt finished my psychology degree, so I finished that up & started teaching. I enjoyed it tremendously. I was sorry to leave. Psychology is a fascinating thing. Altogether I must have taught psychology classes for six years. I canʼt be sure of that. It seems about right. My doctorʼs degree is in psychology. I didnʼt like being called Doctor. I enjoyed my work, I loved it, but, damn it, I wasnʼt an M.D. & all I would have been doing by going & getting the diploma was becoming Dr. Wilson. I just wasnʼt going to go through life with Dr. in front of my name. So I didnʼt.

Interviewer: Letʼs return to what your dad wanted you to do when you taught debate. Tell us about how you taught debate & how you used cameras to record the before & after with students.How did you get into debate? Were you teaching speech?
Sherman: Well, first, I was an expert photographer early in the game; thatʼs how I got in the Navy. I was a speech professor as well as a psychology professor. But I only took the diploma as a speech professor. Speech was my job when I was in grammar school. Jesse Bonselle was a famous actress in New York who took up money & bought a Jewish synagogue in Detroit & established the Bonselle Theater. One day my teacher asked if I knew the theater & Jesse? I said no. So she introduced me & said that I would do what she wants. I walked over & she looked me over like she was buying me, & I said, will I pass? She said, Iʼm sure you will. I worked with her on the stage as an actor in various roles for a long time, probably 6 or 7 years. I taught debate, too. How did I learn debate anyway? It all goes back to a wonderful teacher. Iʼve had more wonderful teachers probably than any man walking, but I got hold of two teachers who taught me debate. They would come in to where I was reading a book & said, come on with us. They took me down & they said youʼre going to work for Jesse. Theyʼd explain what was to be done & Iʼd do it. Well, I admired these women enough that when the said do it, I did it. So I went on the stage & Jesse had me playing the parts of young people, & later on, playing mature parts with a lot of makeup. That was the life, & I enjoyed it. We did AS YOU LIKE IT in full costume to a full house. That was one thing I liked, a full house.

Interviewer: Well, you are 102 years old. To what do you attribute your old age? What regime do you have?
Sherman: You mean why am I healthy? I donʼt think I can answer that intelligently, but I can go around it. My father was the healthiest man I ever knew, except that nobody knew how to count calories & nobody knew what the dangers of overweight were, & so my wonderful father thought he could eat all he wanted to, & he did. So did I. But I was young enough so that I didnʼt develop the big belly that he did, & the weight killed him. He played 36 holes of golf on Sunday, got up & shaved Monday, & dropped dead. He was 56 years old. I was very young, in my 20s. He dropped dead & nobody knew why. Everything he did, I had to do with him. We both were golf & tennis champions. He had a huge library in his home. He designed his home just the way he wanted it. The library was filled with books & I had read everyone of them. You can read Victor Hugo & you learn something. Some of them were just Tom Sawyer. My father never let me go to bed & sleep at night without reading to me first. He was such a part of my life. We read the same books & discussed them. If I liked an author, Iʼd read everything else he wrote, & that makes quite a lot of books. As far as I know, I cleaned out a huge shelf, I had read all Victor Hugo, all of duMont, some books that my mother had whispered to my father that I should not read.

Interviewer: You survived the depression pretty well. You were at the University of Michigan.
Sherman: I lived on 30 cents a day for food, for quite a while. But I was young & I was directing on the theater. I formed & directed several theaters, civic theaters. The one I was in at the time, they would bring some soup, some raw bread, & so we were keeping alive by bringing each other food in the theater. That was a great group. That was in Battle Creek. Battle Creek is a nice town; nice people, good schools, I like it.

Interviewer: Did you live in the dorms at the University of Michigan?
Sherman: I did, but I didnʼt like it. There was a fraternity that offered to take care of me & they were alright, but I didnʼt like the air of the thing. I got out & found a private home. I paid $30 per week for my room.

Interviewer: In Masonry, I know you didnʼt go through the chairs, but what interested you most about being a Mason?
Sherman: Well, obviously, the biggest part was my father being a Mason. I appreciated dad so much so I was enthusiastic when I joined. I was active in DeMolay for quite a while & then I joined. My mother was a bit against my joining because she had heard all these wild stories about how they beat each other up, & things of that kind, so it all worked & I jumped into Masonry with dad being right there. From then on we went to Lodge together. It wasnʼt too long after that that he died. I donʼt remember the Masonic funeral. I sometimes wonder what happened to me. I was too upset. There was this very close, but healthy, association between the father & son. I was lost.There was just my younger sister & me. She was an actress, & was a teacher for a while. She married & her son comes to see me now & then, mysteriously almost, she died suddenly, just like that. It was something they hadnʼt learned about in medicine. So this beautiful woman who could play tennis well, play golf well, who was great in the theater; almost anything she could do well. She had a wonderful singing voice. Her son, Jack, comes to visit me about every third week & we go to breakfast or lunch. He is a hell of a guy. He has an interesting job. He has developed into a man of tremendous strength & agility. He is working where all the men in the place are a little cockoo. His job is to control the ones who go wild, without hurting them, &that isnʼt easy. Some big guys go wild. It enters into his personality. Heʼs different because of that. He & I spend time together like that. My wife says he comes too often. But thatʼs not it, thatʼs just the guy. My sister was living a very fine life. She got some disease & died very quickly. She was only 32.

Interviewer: Your mother, what traits did she have?
Sherman: Oh, thatʼs easy. She was one of the first women to play basketball & wear bloomers. She was also one of the first women to teach
in that area in a school. Her father was a farmer & she grew up on the farm. She went into the city & got an office job. I want to get this straight ʻcause itʼs a good story. She met my father & almost at the same time, her aunt, May Ringe (who had married a man who was the richest man in California). It would have been nice if he had married my mother instead. She always felt a little embarrassed about it. She didnʼt have a couple of million dollars. I met my wife, Betty Wilson, who I picked out on the street one time. I said, youʼre new here arenʼt you? She said yes I just came in & hope to find a place with Northwestern University & she has come to this dumb place. I said, you are in my class, & I know a lot of speech. Well, if you do, I need you in my class. She would come because I need you. There was a state competition in speaking that was popular with all universities & you are a speaker, trained in spontaneity, I want you to enter for our university so we compete. She said, Iʼm not interested & got up & walked away. It was as though I didnʼt exist, you know. So I told her she was talking to a professor & I want you in my class tomorrow. Iʼve had speech, she said. So I said, please come to my class tomorrow. She did. Betty: I found out there was a monetary reward if you won this contest. I was more interested in the monetary reward to help with my college expenses, than I was in his class or the oratory contest. We have been married 42 years in October. With regard to Masonry, although I donʼt have any direct relationship except for the men I know, my father & his 3 brothers were Masons. Shermanʼs father & grandfather were Masons. Thatʼs as far as I know. In England, being a Mason is a very high privilege & a class kind of thing. Where in America, being a Mason is just every man loving every man & woman around him. My motherʼs father, my grandfather McDermit, was a Knights Templar in Canada & my first memory of grandpa was riding on a big black horse, because I was very little, with a big high plume on his hat in the Masonʼ s parade once a year. He was the leader of the Knights Templar & I thought he was very grand, indeed. I have nothing but good & wonderful memories. Recently, Sherman & I will be going to the Lodge to the fish & chicken dinner, to support the Lodge.

Interviewer: So you are active the Lodge? Do you go to other events?
Betty: Sherman got his 50 year pin, & the Grand Master of Michigan gave me this lavaliere which I wear around my neck, but I donʼt do anything except eat.

Interviewer: What did you study in college, Betty?
Betty: First of all, I was a high school teacher & then the war came along & I was married to someone else at that time & I went to California during the war, where I worked for American National Life Insurance. There the jobs got better as you moved from desk to desk. I started at the bottom. I was just outside of the door of the general treasurer. So when I came home I went to work at Northern Savings, doing income taxes & bookkeeping. Being me, it wasnʼt too long before I started my own business & had my own corporation for 54 years before I retired.

Interviewer: What was the name of your company?
Betty: Betty Ann Whitley.
Sherman: Iʼd like to put in a word. I talked to her on the phone once to ask her advice. I hadnʼt seen her in 35 years. I was dating a Canadian photographer woman who was very good at spy work because I thought, so I had been taking her to dinner quite regularly. I walked in over there & she said, I have one more client & asked if I minded waiting. I said no, no, Iʼll sit out here & read a book. Pretty soon the door opens & I looked up & Betty walked in.
Betty: I found you name in the book. I didnʼt know you were there. The Masons were at a funeral. He was a member of Blue Water Lodge & there was a group of Masons there, as they always are. So we hadnʼt seen each other in a long time, & were both single then. We both had vowed that we would never marry again. So much for that.
Sherman: The first time I took both the girls & then the next time I just took Betty. I was struck, still am struck.

Interviewer: Any wisdom that you havenʼt already shared of life, growing old, any recommendations that you could share.
Betty: Oh, no, because for everyone its a mixture of good & bad & hard times & good times. The only thing that both Sherman & I have come to accept is part of song that is one of his favorites. “Keep right on going to the end of the road.” No matter whether it is good or bad, you canʼt change it or make it any better probably. But just keep on truckinʼ & youʼll get there. So, my legs donʼt work so well, but my head works, & sometimes Sherm forgets that his legs donʼt work so well, so between the two of us, we are, indeed, blessed.

Interviewer: Tell us about what you do in the mornings.
Betty: Well, I get up at a quarter after 6, unfortunately, I start dressing & then I call this one who has told me the night before that he wants to go to the mall in Port Huron, 13 miles away, & to walk. Because if he doesnʼt walk & if he doesnʼt see that crowd down there, & John Cooper, who lives in Port Huron, he wonʼt live. So for that reason & because Iʼm a soft touch, we get up & go to the mall 5 days a week ordinarily. Now I have to tell you a little secret - he walks with a shopping cart, to make sure he doesnʼt fall down. I donʼt walk at all, I just sit & talk with the folks there. He doesnʼt walk all the way around any more, the truth be known. Those days are gone forever, but he goes as far as the post office, which is about a third of the way & back, & picks up the mail. He & his partner pick up the mail for the sisters of a religious community to which we both belong, & brings it back for me. Then we have coffee & donuts at Tim Hortons & then home for the rest of the day, which included you two nice fellows coming to see us.
Sherman: I donʼt have a driverʼs license. It was snatched away from me, not very long ago, less than two years ago. This woman was checking me out & it was cold out & I started the engine. She said, you fail. I said, I never had a chance to drive yet. She said, you never start your engine before you put your seat belt on & your foot on the brakes. I had committed a crime & havenʼt driven a car since. That was the only reason. Other than that I felt secure in driving.
Betty: He has no insurance. In todayʼs world with no insurance you canʼt drive an automobile.

Interviewer: Was there an appeal process you could have gone through?
Betty: There were many other things involved also, but this is the one he likes to remember.

Interviewer: So they had a big celebration at the Lodge for your 50 years?
Betty: Oh yes, the Grand Master came. His wife came with him, too. They had a dinner the purple gang is headed for your bank & father just went & got his pistol & I got mine & we walked down & when we got there we rechecked & the police said we didn't have to worry, it is too late & they ran, but we each had our gun loaded. was 13 years old, but father treated me as if I was 20 years old. Later on in Europe, when I was doing the same thing to my son, some Americans came over & said, we donʼt want to be rude, but we were listening in on your conversation. Why do you talk to this beautiful young man as though we were 100 years old? I said, well, heʼs not a 100 years old, but he is probably 60 or 70. They couldnʼt believe it. Another story along that line. There is a statue to the honor of the Swiss Army who paid for someone to come & guard this is a big statue from the crowds that were around, & so forth. I canʼt think what the statue was. Anyway it had lights all over it & one of my jobs was to go down at night & kick out people where picking pockets who wander around. Later I got assignments that were more exciting. I was lucky in the Navy, maybe. I had applied to the Army & I hadnʼt been sworn in & I got a call from the Navy who said come on in & weʼll fix you up. So I went in to the Navy as a lieutenant commander & boy did I work my tail off.

Interviewer: Well, I hear the food was better in the Navy, too.
Sherman: Well I never had a complaint. It was just working with a lot of fellows who knew what they were doing. I'm sure here were times when it wasn't that way.

Interviewer: Tell us about working for Jam Handy.
Sherman: Well, Jam Handy was a top-level, quality ,politically successful producer of training films. When the war came along they wanted him to do that, too, & so he worked right alongside of me part of the time. My job was to pick up the hard jobs. There would be a job that became a better way to transmit secretly & then I was the only one who could understand it, so I taught it for a while & I guess I can say I was grateful to the Navy. I couldn't have asked are treated better & of course I got a paper from the president & one from the governor saying I maintain my rank. So, legally I am still in the Navy &, of course, I would serve if they called on me, are better where we work on it & then a course I was sure of it they needed me. But they didn't need me to point a gun & shoot somebody. They needed me to train. Training of young men is not always easy. I remember I was having trouble with a training film; Iʼd made the training film, & the young recruits, the young men, who were seeing this for the first time, would start dropping down & going to sleep. You wonʼ believe this. I looked around & found a very good looking girl start on virtually it what it is I like to route upon them for every good looking girl that had exceptionally good legs & I said I need to use you as a bait. If I don't let the animals chew you up, will you do it? She says, sounds good, letʼs doit. So I had her doing unimportant things on the stage. They didnʼt sleep any more, they stayed awake. The most exciting story I can tell you is how we snuck a girl out who was going to be put in jail in Hitlerʼs place.

Interviewer: Did you work with the French resistance?
Sherman: No. I got word to the Americans that a girl was being held under armed guard from Austrian Nazis, & that made impossible almost a rescuer because they would shoot her first. So they call me in. It turned out she had a man with a loaded gun right at her door. All night long while she was sleeping, that guy was there. But he was human & he occasionally fell asleep. So we waited our chance telling her in the daytime what we were going to do, when we could do it. We waited until one time when he was asleep & she could open the door quietly & sneak out & we left & he was still sleeping.We got her down to someAmericans & said to fly this girl out of there before they shoot her, & they did. Years later I remembered the name & I wrote to them & they were starving for food, & so I actually found the family so I sent them a lot of food because they needed it. Then years later, I was married to Betty, we were in their town & I said I wanted to see my old friend. Iʼm not sure Betty was in favor of it. So we went & called on her & she was married to a successful doctor who wasnʼt making much money because doctors donʼt make much money in Europe. We were entertained at dinner. Now the custom at dinner, if you entertain guests at dinner you give them a present to take with them home. It doesnʼt have to be expensive, just some little thing. As we were leaving she came up to me& put something in my hand. That something is a piece of wood about so square, & it says “donʼt forget.” Well that is on my office wall & is a handy thing to remember. It reminds me of that time & of what a delightful person she is. Betty was wonderful about it, she didnʼt make any fuss about it at all. Bettyʼs wonderful all the time. So I have this black & gold plaque & I say goodnight to it once in a while. There have been so many incidents like that, I wonder how I made it sometimes.

Interviewer: Did you get any commendations while you were in the service?
Sherman: No, no. Those things are for officers of high rank & I was only a lieutenant, & they werenʼt passing them out to lieutenants.

Interviewer: How many movies did you make while you were in the service?
Sherman: Probably as many as 15, because they were on small areas that had to be done in a hurry. You had to teach fast. Theyʼs say, hereʼs a group of students & weʼre teaching them RADAR, which was just coming in, & they are taking 3 months to learn it, & we canʼt afford that. Make us a film on RADAR that we can use, so I make one that can do it in 5 days. Theyʼd say, thanks much, & walk away. That was the thing that was exciting then, was how fast could I turn it out.

Interviewer: What did you do on the film? Did you write it? Did you do all the work? Did you photograph it? Did you have a crew?
Sherman: I had complete command. I didnʼt do any of it. I just said YOU do this & YOU do that. I was going around the country, so I could take a plane or train or whatever. I didnʼt enjoy driving around. But when you get that kind of complete understanding & appreciation, you work your ass off for them. As I said, I still have that ʻdonʼt forgetʼ thing hanging in my office. I think Betty will someday try & lose it for me.

Interviewer: You werenʼt the only one in training movies. How many people were simultaneously making movies?
Sherman: Hmmmm. Thatʼs a good one. I would say there as man as 12 to 20 motion pictures that they were waiting for. Theyʼd say, ʻget ʻem out, get ʻem out.ʼ Of course, it ʼs not easy to produce a film rapidly & make it a good film. You know the 40mm quad, the big gun that won the Pacific battle with the airplanes? It would be on a sandy beach & would be shooting at planes that were over the water. These things would go, boom boom, boom boom. The shell that had been sent out would be like that (indicating size) & if it hit any vital spot at all, it would destroy the plane, not fast, but eventually. Four of these guns were on pedestals with very fine controls. So you could watch the horizon see where you were shooting. I took Betty down on the beach to see this thing & she wandered off by herself. The loudspeaker comes out, ʻThere ʼs a woman down on the gunnery range. Somebodyʼs going to catch hell. Get her out of there.ʼ So I had to get my wife out of the range.

Interviewer: Your role was as a produce to do these movies? Sherman: Ya, I was I was a problem solver too. The Americans donʼt make good guns. Youʼll find that a French or Swiss gun is better. They wanted about 130 machine guns, but they couldnʼt bring them through openly & they were frustrated. It was my job to get those guns through. I found an article in the paper about a lady who was going over to America & I told her I want you to take some new clothes because youʼre going to be working for me. She said, ʻIʼve got plenty.ʼI said, you go down & buy all the clothes you can carry over to the United States. So I took half of them & put parts of the guns in them & put clothes on top & they shipped them right through & nobody knew what they were until they got to the Airforce, & as that is where the machine guns could be used & we unbuckled them & gave her the clothes.

Interviewer: Whose job was it at Jam Handy to negotiate contract with the Navy for these movies?
Sherman: Probably mine. Jam Handy & I were friends & we could work together. Some people hated his guts; probably some people hated my guts, but anyway, it was easy to work with him. He understood.

Interviewer: So you worked with him for how many years?
Sherman: Well, it was intermittent work, you understand, not reporting for duty every day, so Iʼd say, probably, 3 years we worked. So did his rival, Wilding. They both cooperated with anything I wanted, & I didnʼt put them in a bad position or anything. But, my biggest contribution was teaching the little groups of people who had never heard of a RADAR ora 40mm, but these kids were supposed to be turned into engineers who could use them. So I would make a quick film & sometimes I would just pull them in & say, ʻhereʼs the gun, learn how to use it.ʼ It was pretty satisfying, because the kids, & some of them were not kids but were old men, but the people under me appreciated it. I was giving them a chance, something they wouldnʼt have had otherwise.

Interviewer: You were influenced by your dad, & he got you into DeMolay.
Sherman: Let me think now. He didnʼt push me, he went over & checked with the DeMolay people & the Masons, because he was a Mason & he had gotten some money for them for the Lodge. Bankers can do that somehow, without robbing the bank. So I had an entrée, so to speak. WhenI walked in the said, your dad was here. So the DeMolay part was easy & enjoyable & I thought it would stop there, but it didnʼt, & I went on & now Iʼm a loyal member.

Interviewer: You were raised, according to my records, 1959 in Pillar Lodge, #526, in St. Clair Shores.
Sherman: Thatʼs right. Thatʼs when I was living in Grosse Point. Nice place to live.

Interviewer: So you were an eastsider.
Sherman: Not always, but recently. Grand View & the Boulevard were my high
school & I lived a block away. There was a high school, grammar school, & a normal school. The normal school would use the others to practice on, to become teachers. So these people who were used as material got twice the training before they could train others, & I walked along & I had the best teachers in the whole system. They had some skills the others didnʼt have. They kept me to work right straight through. I was a busy man. Some wonderful women did some teaching during the wartime. Just great.

Interviewer: After the war, what did you do?
Sherman: I went back to work. I think I hadnʼt finished my psychology degree, so I finished that up & started teaching. I enjoyed it tremendously. I was sorry to leave. Psychology is a fascinating thin. Altogether I must have taught psychology classes for six years. I canʼt be sure of that. It seems about right. My doctorʼs degree is in psychology. I didnʼt like being called Doctor. I enjoyed my work, I loved it, but, damn it, I wasnʼt an M.D. & all I would have been doing by going & getting the diploma was becoming Dr. Wilson. I just wasnʼt going to go through life with Dr. in front of my name. So I didnʼt.

Interviewer: Letʼs return to what your dad wanted you to do when you taught debate. Tell us about how you taught debate & how you used cameras to record the before & after with students.How did you get into debate? Were you teaching speech?
Sherman: Well, first, I was an expert photographer early in the game; thatʼs how I got in the Navy. I was a speech professor as well as a psychology professor. But I only took the diploma as a speech professor. Speech was my job when I was in grammar school. Jesse Bonselle was a famous actress in New York who took up money & bought a Jewish synagogue in Detroit & established the Bonselle Theater. One day my teacher asked if I knew the theater & Jesse? I said no. So she introduced me & said that I would do what she wants. I walked over & she looked me over like she was buying me, & I said, will I pass? She said, Iʼm sure you will. I worked with her on the stage as an actor in various roles for a long time, probably 6 or 7 years.
I taught debate, too. How did I learn debate anyway? It all goes back to a wonderful teacher. Iʼve had more wonderful teachers probably than any man walking, but I got hold of two teachers who taught me debate. They would come in to where I was reading a book & said, come on with us. They took me down se. Theyʼd explain what was to be done & Iʼd do it. Well, I admired these women enough that when the said do it, I did it. So I went on the stage & Jesse had me playing the parts of young people, & later on, playing mature parts with a lot of makeup. That was the life, & I enjoyed it. We did AS YOU LIKE IT in full costume to a full house. That was one thing I liked, a full house.

Interviewer: Well, you are 102 years old. To what do you attribute your old age? What regime do you have?
Sherman: You mean why am I healthy? I donʼt think I can answer that intelligently, but I can go around w what the dangers of overweight were, & so my wonderful father thought he could eat all he wanted to, & he did. So did I. But I was young enough so that I didnʼt develop the big belly that he did, & the weight killed him. He played 36 holes of golf on Sunday, got up & shaved Monday, & dropped dead. He was 56 years old. I was very young, in my 20s. He dropped dead & nobody knew why. Everything he did, I had to do with him. We both were golf & tennis champions. He had a huge library in his home. He designed his home just the way he wanted it. The library was filled with books & I had read everyone of them. You can read Victor Hugo & you learn something. Some of them were just Tom Sawyer. My father never let me go to bed & sleep at night without reading to me first. He was such a part of my life. We read the same books & discussed them. If I liked an author, Iʼd read everything else he wrote, & that makes quite a lot of books. As far as I know, I cleaned out a huge shelf, I had read all Victor Hugo, all of duMont, some books that my mother had whispered to my father that I should not read.

Interviewer: You survived the depression pretty well. You were at the University of Michigan.Sherman: I lived on 30 cents a day for food, for quite a while. But I was young & I was directing on the theater.I formed & directed several theaters, civic theaters. The one I was in at the time, they would bring some soup, some raw bread, & so we were keeping alive by bringing each other food in the theater. That was a great group. That was in Battle Creek. Battle Creek is a nice town; nice people, good schools, I like it.

Interviewer: Did you live in the dorms at the University of Michigan?
Sherman: I did, but I didnʼt like it. There was a fraternity that offered to take care of me & they were alright, but I didnʼt like the air of the thing. I got out & found a private home. I paid $30 per week for my room.

Interviewer: In Masonry, I know you didnʼt go through the chairs, but what interested you most about being a Mason?
Sherman: Well, obviously, the biggest part was my father being a Mason. I DeMolay for quite a while & then I joined. My mother was a bit against my she had heard all these wild stories about how they beat each other up, & things of that kind, so it all worked & I jumped into Masonry with dad being right there. From then on we went to Lodge together. It wasnʼt too long after that that he died. I donʼt remember the Masonic funeral. I sometimes wonder what happened to me. I was too upset. There was this very close, but healthy, association between the father & son. I was lost.There was just my younger sister & me. She was an actress, & was a teacher for a while. She married & her son comes to see me now & then, mysteriously almost, she died suddenly, just like that. It was something they hadnʼt learned about in medicine. So this beautiful woman who could play tennis well, play golf well, who was great in the theater; almost anything she could do well. She had a wonderful singing voice. Her son, Jack, comes to visit me about every third week & we go to breakfast or lunch. He is a hell of a guy. He has an interesting job. He has developed into a man of tremendous strength & agility. He is working where all the men in the place are a little cockoo. His job is to control the ones who go wild, without hurting them, & that isnʼt easy. Some big guys go wild. It enters into his personality. Heʼs different because of that. He & I spend time together like that. My wife says he comes too often. But thatʼs not it, thatʼs just the guy. My sister was living a very fine life. She got some disease & died very quickly. She was only 32.

Interviewer: Your mother, what traits did she have?
Sherman: Oh, that ʼs easy. She was one of the first women to play basketball & wear bloomers. She was also one of the first women to teaching that area in a school. Her father was a farmer & she grew up on the farm. She went into the city & got an office job. I want to get this straight ʻcause itʼs a good story. She met my father & almost at the same time, her aunt, May Ringe (who had married a man who was the richest man in California). It would have been nice if he had married my mother instead. She always felt a little embarrassed about it. She didnʼt have a couple of million dollars. I met my wife, Betty Wilson, who I picked out on the street one time. I said, youʼre new here arenʼt you? She said yes I just came in & hope to find a place with Northwestern University & she has come to this dumb place. I said, you are in my class, & I know a lot of speech. Well, if you do, I need you in my class. She would come because I need you. There was a state competition in speaking that was popular with all universities & you are a speaker, trained in spontaneity, I want you to enter for our university so we compete. She said, Iʼm not interested & got up & walked away. It was as though I didnʼt exist, you know. So I told her she was talking to a professor & I want you in my class tomorrow. Iʼve had speech, she said. So I said, please come to my class tomorrow. She did.Betty: I found out there was a monetary reward if you won this contest. I was more interested in the monetary reward to help with my college expenses, than I was in his class or the oratory contest.We have been married 42 years in October. With regard to Masonry, although I donʼt have any direct relationship except for the men I know, my father & his 3 brothers were Masons. Shermanʼs father & grandfather were Masons. That ʼs as far as I know. In England, being a Mason is a very high privilege & a class kind of thing. Where in America, being a Mason is just every man loving every man & woman around him. My motherʼs father, my grandfather McDermit, was a Knights Templar in Canada & my first memory of grandpa was riding on a big black horse, because I was very little, with a big high plume on his hat in the Masonʼs parade once a year. He was the leader of the Knights Templar & I thought he was very grand, indeed. I have nothing but good & wonderful memories. Recently, Sherman & I will be going to the Lodge to the
fish & chicken dinner, to support the Lodge.

Interviewer: So you are active the Lodge? Do you go to other events?
Betty: Sherman got his 50 year pin, & the Grand Master of Michigan gave me this lavaliere which I wear around my neck, but I donʼt do anything except eat.

Interviewer: What did you study in college, Betty?
Betty: First of all, I was a high school teacher & then the war came along & I was married to someone else at that time & I went to California during the war, where I worked for American National Life Insurance. There the jobs got better as you moved from desk to desk. I started at the bottom. I was just outside of the door of the general treasurer. So when I came home I went to work at Northern Savings, doing income taxes & bookkeeping. Being me, it wasnʼt too long before I started my own business & had my own corporation for 54 years before I retired.

Interviewer: What was the name of your company?
Betty: Betty Ann Whitley.

Sherman: I ʼd like to put in a word. I talked to her on the phone once to ask her advice. I hadnʼt seen her in 35 years. I was dating a Canadian photographer woman who was very good at spy work because I thought, so I had been taking her to dinner quite regularly. I walked in over there & she said, I have one more client & asked if I minded waiting. I said no, no, Iʼll sit out here & read a book. Pretty soon the door opens & I looked up & Betty walked in. Betty: I found you name in the book. I didnʼt know you were there. The Masons were at a funeral. He was a member of Blue Water Lodge & there was a group of Masons there, as they always are. So we hadnʼt seen each other in a long
time, & were both single then. We both had vowed that we would never marry again. So much for that.
Sherman: The first time I took both the girls & then the next time I just took Betty. I was struck, still am struck.

Interviewer: Any wisdom that you havenʼt already shared of life, growing old, any recommendations that you could share.
Betty: Oh, no, because for everyone its a mixture of good & bad & hard times & good times. The only thing that both Sherman & I have come to accept is part of song that is one of his favorites. “Keep right on going to the end of the road.” No matter whether it is good or bad, you canʼt change it or make it any better probably. But just keep on truckinʼ & youʼll get there. So, my legs donʼt work so well, but my head works, & sometimes Sherm forgets that his legs donʼt work so well, so between the two of us, we are, indeed, blessed.

Interviewer: Tell us about what you do in the mornings.
Betty: Well, I get up at a quarter after six, unfortunately, I start dressing & then I call this one who has told me the night before that he wants to go to the mall in Port Huron, thirteen miles away, & to walk. Because if he doesnʼt walk & if he doesnʼt see that crowd down there, & John Cooper, who lives in Port Huron, he wonʼt live. So for that reason & because Iʼm a soft touch, we get up & go to the mall 5days a week ordinarily. Now I have to tell you a little secret-he walks with a shopping cart, to make sure he doesnʼt fall down. I donʼt walk at all, I just sit & talk with the folks there. He doesnʼt walk all the way around any more, the truth be known. Those days are gone forever, but he goes as far as the post office, which is about a third of the way & back, & picks up the mail. He & his partner pick up the mail for the sisters of a religious community to which we both belong, & brings it back for me. Then we have coffee & donuts at Tim Hortons & then home for the rest of the day, which included you two nice fellows coming to see us.
Sherman: I donʼt have a driverʼs license. It was snatched away from me, not very long ago, less than two years ago. This woman was checking me out & it was cold out & I started the engine. She said, you fail. I said, I never had a chance to drive yet. She said, you never start your engine before you put your seat belt on & your foot on the brakes. I had committed a crime & havenʼt driven a car since. That was the only reason. Other than that I felt secure in driving.
Betty: He has no insurance. In todayʼs world with no insurance you canʼt drive an automobile.

Interviewer: Was there an appeal process you could have gone through?
Betty: There were many other things involved also, but this is the one he likes to remember.

Interviewer: So they had a big celebration at the Lodge for your 50 years?
Betty: Oh yes, the Grand Master came. His wife came with him, too. They had a dinner & he spoke. It was an emotional time, for me, too.
Sherman: It was at a Scottish Rite cathedral.
Betty: Down at the Masonic hall down in Detroit.
Sherman: The pin has my mothers engagement diamond in it. The others are from the Scottish Rite, with eagles on each side. Iʼm a 32nd
.
Interviewer: We appreciate having you share your stories with us & we thank you very much.
Sherman & Betty: Thank you for coming. It was an honor & a blessing.
End of interview
Ref: Legacy Series: Oral Histories with Past Grand Masters of Michigan also a video. - - -

Family/Spouse: Betty Ann WHITLEY. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Jeanne is the daughter of Alice Hill & Anson Abram Willson.

There was just my younger sister & me. She was an actress, & was a teacher for a while. She married & her son comes to see me now & then, mysteriously almost, she died suddenly, just like that. It was something they hadnʼt learned about in medicine. So this beautiful woman who could play tennis well, play golf well, who was great in the theater; almost anything she could do well. She had a wonderful singing voice. Her son, Jack, comes to visit me about every third week & we go to breakfast or lunch. He is a hell of a guy. He has an interesting job. My sister was living a very fine life. She got some disease & died very quickly. She was only 32.

Family/Spouse: (Living) MOLK. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]